One can always eat more cheese.

[quote:486d2ade51="Porter"]Guess we don't have much choice.[/quote:486d2ade51]

Yes, we have a choice. We must be sensible in our choice of locations for storage of waste, for a start. Let's not dump it in the sea, for example. Bad idea.

The second choice we need to make is to choose Nuclear (well, fission at least) as a simple stop gap solution. We need this NOW to keep us going until we find something better, not as a long term fix.

In the long term, once we have covered our immediate requirements with nuclear and discontinued releasing stored CO2 into the atmosphere we can look at clean alternatives. Solar/Wind/Wave, currently not viable on large enough scale can be researched and improved. Also, let's not forget nuclear fusion - this is now sustainable for reasonable periods of time in the laboratory. We aren't far away at all from getting that technology online.

Essentially we have a crisis right now. A storm we need to weather until we can bring the new and clean technologies online. Nuclear fission makes a lot of waste, but it can be managed and managed effectively (just expensive). It does not, however, pollute the atmosphere and global ecosphere. Burning stuff does.

Problem is, the Government will pin everything on Nuclear and 200yrs on we'll have nuclear problems.

I can't realistically see wind/wave/solar becoming a viable option. Wind farms generate a very small percentage of the UK's requirements. Solar is still a gimmick system with very few places even entertaining the notion.

Personally I think we should follow the example set by Wells' Morlocks ;)

In all seriousness, I agree that nuclear power is the way to go for the moment. Why can't we just jettison the waste into the sun? OR just dump it in New Jersey. I am hereby offering to the industrial world, that they can hereby use the State of New Jersey as a dumping ground for nuclear waste.

Because as with last year, some dumb bastard Brit will allow the American Nuclear Industry to send their waste to the UK!

I had a cousin who had a nice job of Shipping my states Toxic waste to the neighboing state... and in turn the neighboring state loaded it up into a new truck and shipped it somewhere else. and so on and so forth.

I think everyone is missing the point. What is needed is a massive lifestyle change on a global scale. Every person should drastically reduce their energy consumption but until the various governments do something to force the point, it won't happen.

A prime example is the recently opened billion dollar project in Sydney called The Cross City Tunnel. It's a tunnel that runs east-west beneath the city so commuters (one person per car) can drive to work a little faster. The money should've been spent on improving the public transport system which would encourage commuters to catch a bus or train to work rather than drive. Infact, our state govt should announce the city as a car free zone and force everyone to catch a bus or a train, or at least car pool. Yeah I like that idea better, no driving into the city area unless you have three or more people in the vehicle. Crash test dummies don't count either. I get so mad seeing cars containing just one person stretching on for ten or fifteen kilometres. Those dickheads deserve to pay out the arse for their fuel. What a fucking waste!

We're in our sixth year of drought and the water levels in our dams are lower than ever before - around 35% capacity. The state govt is now accepting tenders to build a desalination plant. Personally I think this will create other problems - what will happen if they dump all that salt back into the ocean. Will the Pacific Ocean be the next Dead Sea? The govt should be introducing legislation demanding the installation of rain tanks and water saving devices in every new building. We should be diverting our grey water back into the house to flush toilets, instead we flush our toilets with drinking water. How ridiculous is that???

Have you been to a waste transfer station recently? We went last week to drop off some scrap steel from this car restoration project we're doing (it went into the free recycling section, thank you). I watched two people throwing perfectly good furniture into the giant compacting machine which will be trucked away to a land fill somewhere. It was disgraceful.

Link: www.dumpsterworld.com
Link: www.dumpsterdiving.net

I can't remember the exact figures but we waste something like 25% or more of all food produced. I can't believe there are places that don't even sort their rubbish collection for recycling - Sydney-siders has been separating paper, plastic, metal and glass for recycling for over 15 years.

Link: www.zerowasteamerica.org contains lots of info on recycling

I'm very passionate about this subject and could write many many paragraphs about it but I wouldn't be telling you anything new. Regardless of whatever nuclear slash fossil fuel reforms are made, until people stop wasting resources, the earth is doomed.

Edit: Did you see Morgan Spurlock's 30 Days? There was an episode where two people were forced to live in an eco village for a month. I stopped eating red meat after seeing it, not because of an animal welfare point of view but simply because of the high number of resources required to get a piece of steak to the table.

Your points are all valid, I accept everything you say. You're not wrong.

But...

It's easier for a government to make a decision than it is to change the lifestyles of billions of individuals. Sad but true.

So, in your example, the gvmt should have taken the decision to improve the public transport infrastructure and didn't.

It's a bit much to expect all the people to change when their leaders won't.

Perhaps more importantly, there is a frightening lack of education on this subject and possibly an ignorance of a duty of care.

*I* know that global warming will turn my home town into an icy wasteland, but does (for example) the average Chinese know and if they did, how much would they care, really... I mean... it's all such a long way away.

Basic ecology should be taught in schools for starters. Certainly it wasn't 20 years ago when I was there.

The average person (and people who write stories on Vampire boards are *not* average), I have concluded, is a pretty stupid, ill educated kind of person. They like to go to do their jobs, which are pretty mindless, come home and go out on a weekend. Try and talk science and eyes glaze over. Just not of interest.

So the problem of educating the masses arises. You needed to catch them in school, when you had half a chance to pound it in. Now, you've no chance. Given that the people are by and large too stupid and/or ill educated to know any better, once again, we must look to leaders to take the hard decisions.

[quote:4d83686bb7="Porter"]*coughs* Guantanamo Bay, anyone? *coughs*[/quote:4d83686bb7]

OK I know this is an older thread and all but I read this and it just chaps my ass. OK yes I will agree that my country and military have done some things that are questionable and all. However the British Gov is no saint either. As for GTMO you are undoubtably refering to the report made in late Jan early Feb by certain individuals who NEVER CAME TO GTMO. They never even set one foot on this base befor they released that "" report "", the base was not closed to them they were offerd the opertunity to come and check it out but not a single one of them did they based the report on interviews with individuals who had been relesed from here. Now I know what your thinking HAH I got em.... but think for a second if you were involved in a Jehad as these individuals feel they are and you were a recently released detainee and your country did not follow the Geneva Convention and had removed heads from the "" infidels "" and had the opertunity to disbarrage the "" infidels "" by saying they mistreated you...... Damn right you would say it with a straight face too.

OK got that off my chest next..........